Tuesday, 27 May 2008

Falling Feels Like Flying On The Way Down

Ok guys, here's a response I was writing to someone and again, it got out of hand so I figured I'd post it here.

"Anonymous said...

Dude WHAT-THE-FUCK are you talking about? lol

Iam in the seduction community cause I want to get better with women. Some guys are good with women, some are not. If you want to get better with women you learn how to get better in a seduction community. If you don't want to be better with girls you don't join a seduction community."

It's not that simple. If you want to get better with girls, and you join the seduction community, not only will you probably not get better with girls (really - the overwhelming majority of guys who try this fail and are worse off with women afterward than when they started) if you do get better with girls then that newfound skill will not better your life.

It will damage you and those around you.

"WHAT IAM TRYING TO SAY IS THIS: Just chill bro'!!! What is all this complex nerd-talk about life good for? Keep it simple man... Let's bang some chicks!! RAWR!!!(H)"

This is not complex. This is chillingly simple. If you 'bang some chicks' you are not going to be better off for having done it. Period.

"...or not if it makes you more happy to sit in your room and read buddha and stuff."

Dude, I have no illusions that I am going to change your mind. None. I know you are set on this path, and I am sorry for you because you deserve better than where you are headed.

At the same time, 'sitting in your room reading buddha and stuff' is just as fucked as seduction if you're doing it because it 'feels good.'

What is good for you does not always feel good.

And frankly if 'what feels good' is the compass by which you are guiding your journey in life - fuck dude. Like, come on, man. Can you not see that this is dangerous? I mean, can you not see that living like this is emotionally unsustainable? And deeper than that - that the part of you that you are feeding by living this way in any area, let alone the all-consuming addiction of the seduction community, is something that will not serve you?

I mean, really, dude - and anyone reading this, listen. If what makes you happy in the short term is your compass needle, you are feeding that part of you that has no depth!

Do not be so blinded by your victories and the rhetoric of others that you believe that you can get away with this! Do not believe you are above the inescapable laws of human nature!

Hell does not give a fuck what you tell yourself! It just doesn't care! It laughs at you when you rebel against what you must know, somewhere in you, is the truth!

"Destructive??? Dark places??? Iam happier then I've ever been and I look around at the people around me who are doing drugs, complaining, mass drinking, consumerism, YOU KNOW ALL TAHT NICE STUFF???"

Do you not think that I had my periods of amazing happiness? Dude, like I have said, I was very good. I was better at this than most guys ever get. There are a lot of professionals with big followings who did not have the abilities I had. And I reveled in them. I felt like a million dollars. I'd never felt that good before or since.

And let me tell you man, that it's not the sex - although I had a shitload of that. That's like a fucking sideshow to the real action. The real action is the pride. The massive pride in who you are.

The pride that I overcame the impossible. The pride that I went from Zero to Hero. The pride that I lived untouched by the insecurities that had dogged me, and the pride that I was always the centre of attention.

That I could see the fucking matrix, man - that I could handle myself in with the hottest chicks like Neo handles himself in a bar-fight with a fat disabled drunk.

You see it changes. Firstly, there's the high of getting laid. That's a big high. It's even bigger when you consider all the shit you've gone through to get there.

Then when you really start to kick ass, there's the high of just being really slick. That's a big high.

Now here's the thing. You'll be pulling shit out of your ass that is awesome, and you'll love it. You'll be like "this is the coolest shit ever!"

And the girls will love it. And your friends will love it. And all the dudes on the internet will love it.

And there will be nothing about it that seems in any way wrong. Nothing. In fact, it will seem like the most natural and cool thing ever.

You will become a turbo-charged version of yourself, and it will rock so hard you will become an evangelical preacher, converting others to this way.

But here's the problem. And before I get into this let me again state that I have no illusions that this will change your mind. I do not think I would have stopped had I got as deep into this as you.

I guess what I want to do is to say to anyone reading this who is sitting on the brink - get the fuck away from the brink.

The problem is simple. The impossible becomes commonplace.

The impossible becomes commonplace.

What I'm saying is this. The human mind can normalise itself to anything. You will normalise yourself to this glory and when you do, you will encounter something.

This is something, incidentally, that I remember raising at a sit down dinner I had not so long ago with some of the best 'ladies men' alive.

Every single one of them nodded. So do not think that what I am about to describe to you is an isolated case, or specifically to do with me.

The problem you will encounter is NOT boredom.

It is NOT 'oh well, let's just do something else'.

You cannot condition yourself for months and years to relentlessly think and behave in a certain way without building up a massive inertia behind it.

The problem is very simply this - a creeping sense of the hollow.

This is not something that leaps upon you like a wolf. It just starts to seep into your life like poison.

Bit by bit, it gets more and more potent. It does this slowly, and you experience it as follows.

You're hitting on a lovely girl and suddenly you realise, maybe 30 minutes in to the conversation, that you are DEFINITELY going to be able to sleep with her.

You can see everything ahead, and you know exactly how to handle it. Short of an act of God, you know you're already fucking her, you're just moving toward a conclusion.

And when you get that realisation, the magic leaves the situation and it feels dull and mechanical.

And you do it anyway. And you fuck her, and you feel 'meh' about it.

Nothing dramatic, nothing massive, just 'yeah, hmm, ok then. Sex."

So you're chasing that rush you used to get and you go for hotter and hotter chicks.

And for a while you get that rush again. Then again, it goes. And you go for threesomes and strippers. And you get another rush.

Then the banality sets in. And it just feels like "ok, here's another mars bar, I'll eat the mars bar and get the sugar rush. Great. Now I need another mars bar."

And that sense of hollowness, all this time, is getting stronger and louder and harder to ignore.

Who the fuck am I?

What the fuck is going on?

Why do I feel so alone all the time?

And you shake it off and say "Don't be such a pussy. Stop bitching. There are a shitload of guys who would kill to get what you have. Buck your ideas up sonny Jim. Go to the club.

So you go to the club. And you pull.

And this time the hollowness doesn't wait for the sex to be over.

It doesn't wait for a week after you get laid, nor a day, nor a minute.

It's right there with you fucking you as you fuck her.

And suddenly you start thinking "who gives a fuck about this?"

But you can't stop.

And by this time the damage you're doing to yourself by each new girl you fuck is like throwing matches on a bonfire. You're already burning.

You're already way beyond fucked. You're just waiting for the least little thing to come tip those scales and drop you the fuck down.

And it will because the house you have built is a house of cards, and it CANNOT stand.

And when you fucking fall man, you fucking fall. And if any of you out there are thinking "what's all this existential nonsense, why doesn't he talk in specifics" let me say this.

It's not fucking nonsense when it's tearing you a new emotional asshole every single minute of every single day.

It's not fucking nonsense when your skills with women, those same skills you spent so much time honing are ripped away from you because no woman will even speak with a man who's so transparently worthless in his own eyes.

It's not fucking nonsense when all the guys who looked up to you are now looking at you like you never had any skill whatsoever and all your bleating claims of "I used to be good" are unconvincing even to you.

Look, I know that a lot of guys are in this and they seem so together. They're fucking the hottest chicks with total impunity and they feel like a million fucking dollars.

But that million fucking dollars is on loan, dude, and when that debt gets called in, you lose a lot more than you ever think you stood to lose in the first place.

I guess I just want to end with one thought. A lot of guys have responded to me saying "what about me, I feel great" or "What about X, he feels great".

Guys, falling feels like flying on the way down.

Falling feels like flying on the way down.

And the guy who wrote this letter to me is right to point at all the things that are fucked about the world.

"doing drugs, complaining, mass drinking, consumerism..."

You are right. These things are fucked. And they're fucked because they ALL - ALL OF THEM - are about building a life based on short-term hits of happiness, superiority and pride.

As seduction is.

AS SEDUCTION IS.

And just as you cannot divorce "doing drugs, complaining, mass drinking, and consumerism" from the short term high and the long term low that are associated with them, that are inextricably bond up in the very foundations of what these things are - ANY project of self-improvement based around seduction is irretrievably interwoven with the short term hit and the long-term low.

But the real killer is this. That long term low will hit you. And it will. There is no way out while you strive to be a better seducer of women.

None. Full stop.

Sorry.

47 comments:

Nixation said...

13:37 post (pun intended)
I see where you are coming from, surges of habit cause short term happiness but in the end can only

1. Break you down (drugs,seduction)
2. Ruin your life (any)
3. Bankrupt you (Consumerism, drugs)
4. Change your personality, negatively, for good (Drugs, seduction)


And some others, too..

Anonymous said...

This is a poem for Ciaran, and anyone else afflicted by this darkness. I found it a while back and its one of my favorites. Rudyard Kipling wrote this about balancing your life when everything around seems chaotic.

http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm

michael said...

Hey

What I feel from this article is that you practiced seduction to achieve happiness. Not practicing being happy, enjoying your life and then based od this steady fundamental enjoying seduction. That's how I see it. You study zen and eastern philosophy. The best thing I've learned from is that there are no "bad" and "good" things. Everything has it's price and reward. Wisdom is taking responsibility for both sides. I'm not judging your leaving from seduction. It's your own choice and probably if you're thinking about saving the world seduction wasn't a good path. I just don't like the way you present seduction as almost pure "evil" now and confusing every one.

When it comes to getting sex for a short-term happiness, it's just one of the views on seduction. I see many guys who left from "game" because they finally find a girl, with whom they want to share their happiness in life. Not from fear of loneliness. And this core happiness they've often learnt from seduction. More precisely, from making vision come true.

Based on what you've written, it seems to me that you're like Michael Jordan who left the basketball for some time becasue he lost the love for the game (process)and didn't find any higher challanges there. After banging chicks with so ease you seem to not see any higher mountain to bring you fullfilment. It seems like almost from the beginning of this journey there must have been something blatantly wrong deep inside you.

Anonymous said...

ok cairan.

taking on board what your saying what advice would you have given yourself if you could turn the clock back?

and correct me if i'm wrong i'm making the assumption that if you could do this you would nt choose to be celibate. like you say the lust is too strong...

Michael said...

It seems like almost from the beginning of this journey there must have been something blatantly wrong deep inside you. Even though your previous articles seems to show that you understand it.

I still don't understand your point with "dark side" of seduction. I don't see anywhere your clear answer Is it that playing this "game" hurt someone? It definately can, but doesn't have to
Is it that doing it doesn't bring happiness? It definately can
Is it that sex is wrong?

With whatever we do, we should tune ourselves daily that we are doing it just for doing it. Putting love for life and happiness into it. Not for any other reason.

kyle said...

I kinda came to similar conclusions myself. I had to take a little break from going out over winter. Then when I had the time again, I would go out and it felt like I was wasting my time, a fools errand exactly describes it for me. Like it was childish or something. I watched a friend get so validated after getting a girls number, it was pretty gross.

Another huge thing I noticed was....

I always wanted to bust in girls faces. Now I kinda realized that its like the ultimate ego validation... But right after I actually did it, I would always feel kinda worthless. I eventually realized it would feel nicer just to be civil about it and go in the condom or whatever.

Its hard to remember that though and I often get pangs/cravings where thats what I really want to do. And after a while with no action, I'm always tempted to get back on the pickup scene...

Ever since I've stepped back from PU ive kinda turned into a nerd..
I don't even work out anymore, i feel its kinda dumb and superficial.

It sucks because now I know its just a matter of choice. I know I can be a sleazy PUA if I want to, I've already had a small taste of the glory.

But thats just what it comes down to, do I want to be that?

Anyway, thats for sharing these things, I want to read more..
~kyle

e13c7r0nic said...

Ciaran,

Read The Noonday Deamon by Andrew Solomon. I mean it in the most sober way. I agree with a lot of the things you say. They're self evident to anyone that has thought things through. But their importance seem to be amplified by depression. Go to the doctor. Take some meds. I did. The book I recommended was of great help.

Cheers, man.

adolfo

Ciaran said...

Yeah, Rudyard Kipling's "If..."

Always one of my favourites.

Also, in response to a few messages I've got from people now, I'm not depressed, I'm ok. Actually, I feel better than I have in a while. I feel like a boil being lanced. It's not fun, but it is necessary and it is important for me to really face the shit I've done.

But guys - I'm fine. In no imminent danger of self-termination. Pinky swear.

Ok, response to the big post by Michael:

"michael said...

Hey

What I feel from this article is that you practiced seduction to achieve happiness."

It would be more accurate to say that I worked at seduction to get out of the life I'd led before, which was pretty lonely.

"Not practicing being happy, enjoying your life and then based od this steady fundamental enjoying seduction. That's how I see it."

You clearly have an understanding of Zen.

Won't help you.

Won't stop the shit.

Won't even slow it down.

Just gonna make it worse.

"You study zen and eastern philosophy. The best thing I've learned from is that there are no "bad" and "good" things."

Yes, Zen would say that. I have discovered that Zen is wrong on this account.

"Everything has it's price and reward."

This is true.

"Wisdom is taking responsibility for both sides."

No. Wisdom is not so easily categorised. Do not think you can box such a thing as wisdom up into so simplistic a package and remain free of consequences.

"I'm not judging your leaving from seduction. It's your own choice and probably if you're thinking about saving the world seduction wasn't a good path. I just don't like the way you present seduction as almost pure "evil" now and confusing every one."

Ok, a couple of things. Firstly, there's no room for the word 'almost' in that last sentence.

Secondly, I do not think I am confusing people. I think I'm being pretty fucking clear. And if I'm muddying anyone's path or denting their resolve, good. Their resolve should be dented.

"When it comes to getting sex for a short-term happiness, it's just one of the views on seduction."

HA!

Oh, my God. We do live in a strange world, do we not, where men like you and I can believe such things with impunity and people will believe us?

Look, this kind of stuff, this way of thinking, will not save you from the shit I'm talking about.

The shit I'm talking about doesn't give a fuck how 'enlightened' you are.

You do NOT get brownie points for being a liberal.

What we are talking about here is REALITY.

It is REALLY REAL.

And the fact is mate, you are really wrong. It does not work in the way you think it works. It works differently, and it doesn't matter if I convince you or not.

That doesn't change a goddamned thing.

In fact, I'd be surprised, very surprised, if I could convince you. I know the pull of this. I know the inertia.

But mate, reality will convince you soon enough.

Soon enough.

"I see many guys who left from "game" because they finally find a girl, with whom they want to share their happiness in life. Not from fear of loneliness. And this core happiness they've often learnt from seduction. More precisely, from making vision come true."

Really. Awesome. Good for them.

You want to know what I've seen?

I've seen some major issues. Deep, intractable problems - especially in relationships. And look, if some dude wants to settle and get a chick, great. Do it. And you know what, you'll feel awesome for a while.

All relationships feel awesome right at the start.

And - and here's the thing - all relationships look great from the outside.

When all you see is these guys when they're 'out with their friends' ie you - all you see is their game faces.

In fact, I'd say that your ability to sustain a relationship is the first thing to take damage from being in the community.

The very first thing.

And while it's easy to talk about this in the abstract, let's just take an introspective moment of silence to appreciate that your ability to form and maintain a committed relationship is one of the most critical skills you will ever have in your life, period.

Hmm. Let's go through just two of problems guys have in relationships after a stint in the community.

1 - TRUST.

This is a biggie. If you are a guy who has fucked a lot of girls who have boyfriends, you will find it basically impossible to trust your own.

The justice of this is extremely cruel and harsh for all it's poetry.

I have seen men with NO ABILITY to trust women.

NONE.

The insecurity, fear, isolation, hate and negativity this brings into a relationship is not something to be taken lightly. Because the result of it is always the same.

They leave you.

2 - UNFAITHFULNESS

It is nigh-on impossible for a guy who has fucked woman after woman, night after night, for months at a time, to be faithful.

Sorry.

True.

Nigh-on impossible.

There are a million reasons to this, and if you want to give it the label 'sex addiction' go nuts. Just remember it is not 'sex' you are addicted to but SEDUCTION.

So you fuck around behind your girlfriend's back and feel like a cunt. She senses it. You rationalise it.

You lose her. Like fucking clockwork, mate.

Done.

"Based on what you've written, it seems to me that you're like Michael Jordan who left the basketball for some time becasue he lost the love for the game (process)and didn't find any higher challanges there."

HA! Way to let yourself off the hook there, dude. I'm a rare and special flower, and so none of this could ever happen to you. Neo would be proud of your bullet-dodging.

And I don't think the metaphor holds up because basketball will not DEFINITELY fuck your love life and self-image.

Seduction will.

"After banging chicks with so ease you seem to not see any higher mountain to bring you fullfilment."

Well, Yoda, I'm glad that you're here with your infinite wisdom to diagnose my problem so well. Have a medal. No, actually, have three.

Listen - and every reading this - you listen too.

All this clever sounding stuff about validation will not save you from the fucking fire.

Do you think me an idiot? Ok, bad question. I am an idiot. But I'm a clever idiot, which is the worst kind. I can think deeper than most people, mate. A lot deeper.

In fact, that's something of a speciality of mine. I'm a clever bastard and I can come up with all sorts of clever ass shit.

And for three years I bent the full power of my mind to thinking on how to do this the 'right' way. The 'healthy' way. The 'Zen' way. The 'compassionate' way. The 'Natural' way. The 'genuine' way.

None of these things stood against the fucking shitstorm when it fell.

None of them.

And I didn't half-ass this shit. Such brilliant theories I had. Such awesome and majestic ideas and ideals. Such good intentions, and such genius in the execution.

None of it meant a goddamned thing. Because it was all thought, and reality doesn't care about what you think.

And the reality is that seduction is harmful to the best parts of you.

And remember - I had my 'moral code' as well. No lies. No stealing from boyfriends. No tricks. Pure honesty. Pure truth.

Do you have that code?

Do you?

Or did I in fact do this as right as it could realistically be done, with huge care and attention to the psychological and spiritual ramifications of it?

That's what I did.

Didn't matter.

Seduction is fucked.

"It seems like almost from the beginning of this journey there must have been something blatantly wrong deep inside you."

Yes. Right from the very beginning of this journey in fact. I was on it.

Ciaran said...

Ok, here's a response to a comment from Bradbury. I had to edit it because of personal references to actual individuals in the community.

I'm not going to get into personal analyses of individual people here, this is not a gossip blog, so be aware if you want your comment to appear, don't ask me to analyze individuals I know. That's between them and you, and them and God.

Bradbury said...

Wait, so you left the seduction community because you feel that the 'seduction' part of it has gotten boring.

OF COURSE SEDUCTION BECOMES AN EMPTY EXPERIENCE AFTER AWHILE.

Look - you guys aren't listening to me. I'm not saying that seduction becomes empty after a while.

I'm saying that seduction becomes empty long after you've passed the point where you can walk away from it.

In fact, I'd go further and say that you're going to actually start seeing real results in this long after you've passed a point where you can walk away from it.

Seduction becomes empty. But your addiction to seduction does not go away.

You just chase it harder and deeper, and get deeper into the shit.

And if you think you're strong enough to turn away then by all means put your theory to the test.

I did.

"In the end sir, I think what you should pursuing is a girlfriend."

No, what I need to be pursuing right now is a life.

"I think that is what most of us in the community are ultimately searching for, even if we haven't fucked enough girls to know it yet."

By the time you've fucked enough girls to realise that it's hollow, you'll be way beyond a point where you can make a relationship function.

Ciaran said...

From Michael -

"It seems like almost from the beginning of this journey there must have been something blatantly wrong deep inside you."

Again, yes. I was pursuing seduction. That was what was wrong with me.

"Even though your previous articles seems to show that you understand it."

I'm only just starting to get my head around it if I'm being honest.

"I still don't understand your point with "dark side" of seduction."

I'm not going to argue you into it mate. I'm not going to, and furthermore I can't. If you're not really open to looking at the fact that this is fucked up, nothing I say is going to convince you. Nothing.

"I don't see anywhere your clear answer."

I don't think I've been beating around the bush. Look again. And this time, really look mate. Really challenge yourself.

"Is it that playing this "game" hurt someone?"

Yup.

"It definately can, but doesn't have to"

Yes it does.

"Is it that doing it doesn't bring happiness?"

No. It's that the happiness you get is built on quicksand.

"Is it that sex is wrong?"

No.

"With whatever we do, we should tune ourselves daily that we are doing it just for doing it."

This shit won't help you, mate. Tried it. Sounds good, doesn't work.

"Putting love for life and happiness into it."

Pennies down a wishing well.

"Not for any other reason."

The reasons really aren't that relevant dude. It's just a big fucking hole that you fall the fuck into.

Jules said...

Thanks so much Ciaran for these last two very insightful posts. I am quite glad you mentioned "the darkness" as you call it as me being a seduction spectator an all, I found it quite hard to understand what you were referring to.

Thanks also for your Eckhart Tolle posts on RSDN, I know for certain that I would not be where I am now (making small but powerful changes to my life) had it not been for these posts and my subsequent reading of Ecky.

I'm going to stay tuned to this blog to see where you progress from here and take anything that resonates with me and where I am heading. I’ll go deeper now though and really get to the core of what I want out of my life and the best way (perhaps through moderation and balance) of getting it and while it may sound bad, I know where I would have ended up had it not been for you falling but then telling the tale.

Thanks again mate.

Jules

Anonymous said...

Ciarin,

I believe I had that same feeling of being ashamed and guilty a few years back. I wonder if it is the same. Mine was a different story...This was way before the seduction community was around. I got my stimulation from:
1. Strip Clubs
2. Escorts
3. Massage Places.

yeah, I was bangin whoever I could afford. It was fun a first but I also felt like I needed more and it was not enough anymore. I was pretty desensitized and no matter how hot the girl was. I felt empty afterwards and tell you the truth...i felt "dirty".

I stop doing that for several years now. So it sounds like the seduction path will be the same once I reach the top?

fullcrum said...

I think it's kind of obvious you aren't convincing very many of us of why we should change our course and not persue this, other than "can't you see it?!" and "it's wrong".

So is there a way to better explain this without all this emotional stuff flying. The emotional rhetoric hasn't worked. There must be something else to get your point across. Just trying to be constructive :).

All the best.

Anonymous said...

Ciaran, my good friend, even though we never met. Huge respect for you, man.

I am nowhere near the level of a average pick-up artist, but I've studied lots of stuff (call me KBJ, if you want). I went from being an extremely awkard guy with no social life that had never kissed a girl, to a guy with friends and a good girlfriend I care about.

And it's a bit weird, I must admit, that what you said rings true. Reading all the PUA stuff I did, while it works, in some ways it makes my relationship with persons more... empty. In relation for my GF, for instance, I always have PUA concepts popping up and whatnot, and I kinda lack the... just being part.

Whatever.

I may be talking out of my ass.

But HUGE respect for you leaving the seduction community, doesn't matter if I think you did wrong or right.

Anyway, I REALLY, REALLY, would love to hear from you on this... What's the way then? What are you to do? What would you do if you could turn back on time?

I think I can see the truth in what you're saying, but it feels a bit weird. I've been told "this is the way, this is the way" and I believed it. You are saying that this is not the right way to go about things, about being happy and able to have good relationships. What do you think (if, in fact you have reached any kind of conclusion) is the way to go?

Thank you, man. Best of luck to you.

Anonymous said...

I spent a year & a half learning how to seduce women. When I wasnt doing it, I was reading about it, thinking about, surfing the net for it.

Its become such a habit now I cant think straight anymore, when I see a woman I like, I'm thinking how I can game her. Not because I want to, but because I can.

And, however you slice it, thats fucked thinking, & I'm struggling to undo it.

Best of luck, my friend.

Anonymous said...

''The darkness is about all of us. About the fact that we are all weak and proud, and that is a dangerous combination.''

You putted that fucking BEAUTIFUL into ONE sentence. saved

yoo man, I am that anonymous guy who wanted to stop but wasn't sure yet because I didn't really make any progress in the game and I wanted to make sure I would succeed at this before leaving.

It's so fucking crazy that I fewed this as a way to success. It's not. You didn't gave me a reply btw. That's all right, you don't have to.

I think I have my own reply. This is a re-interpretation of my above excuse for not wanting to stop:

''Hey Ciaran, yoo man, I am an anonymous guy who wants to stop but I am not sure yet because I am not really making any progress in losing myself and I want to make sure I will succeed in losing my soul totally before leaving.''

Dude, I was so obsessed with becoming a cool popular guy, that I didn't care about anything else in life, until after reading your real new insights.

''And the fact is, we spend so much time trying to get women to sleep with us, we never stop to consider if we should. We live in a society that glorifies short-term pleasure. We live in a world that views male promiscuity as cool.

And the question we need to ask is this - is that assessment true?''

Guys talk the whole time about wanting to see the matrix. the matrix. the matrix oooh. While they don't realize they are trapped in the matrix.

The only way to really beat the matrix is by recognising how it effects your being. Because it plays games with you, makes you chase this/that.

By stepping outside of it, you recognise it for what it really is. That's what Ciaran did.

It's like the guys who still refuse to stop after reading Ciarans post are still trapped in an imagined world or something and screaming at Ciaran who sees their world for what it really is (and is now awake in reality) why he doesn't believe in it anymore. hahaha

Guys this must be fucking painful for Ciaran to watch too, he knows that you guys have trapped yourself in an illusion and that it's only a matter of time before you will see what the truth is.

Anyway, enough about ''other guys''. Yesterday I decided to log out of RSDn for the last time and I deleted all the documents on my computer about pickup.

Ciaran, I wanted to stop by and tell you that today was the first day in 2 years that I have started living again.

Thanks mate.

Flowz said...

Ciaran - Does the high of being in the moment & happy about the fact you have no 'need to be high' (you just are) count for nothing??

From what I gather you're a very passionate/captivating individual (esp when it comes to conversation..) So I'm sure that any audience, elite or not, that you engage in diatribe would be nodding along.. This does not at all indicate what you're saying is truth, it does however indicate that you are receiving validation on your point from naught but their nods & your perceived 'value/status' of this particular audience..

Is what you want a following of yes-men, for others to agree with you 'yes!! seduction is fucked' or is this position you're holding on the subject an attempt to gather insight into your own/the human soul as a collective?? What difference will it make whether people believe you or not, how it will it benefit them?? Please, tell us..

I respect you & am a big fan of your works/musings & would like to know where you're coming from (and where you're going) with this..

Many Blessings..

Flowz

Rail said...

Ciaran,

What is the alternative? Some people need this. They need hope. There are people in darkness only on the other end. Maybe it just leads to another, perhaps worse darkness. But there are other darknesses in the world that are just as real.

How's a man supposed to redeem himself in this world, in this arena? To not have had sex until his mid-twenties or even later. To have missed middle school, high school, prom, college, your early twenties, your late twenties.... When the whole world is fucking?

What's a man supposed to do with that? When he looks at around and know it's not all his fault, but really, it's all his fault.

That's the best thing this stupid community does. It sometimes helps those guys.

I agree. Seduction is no salvation.

But then what is?

There are other dark things in the world that will drive a man mad my friend. Sometimes you have to take a chance. Sometimes you have to take the Chemo. Sometimes you have to jump.

And sometimes you hit the ground. Hard.

At least it feels like flying for a while.

Anonymous said...

Cirian it seems your journey was a journey of the ego despite the fact you fooled yourself to believe it was on a spiritual path (but really all is a spiritual path; we learn). You fulfilled your ego wants for control, approval, separation and security by building up the ability to go out and pick up women quickly, or to get a club going. That ego crack-meth hit of quick pulls, of being looked up to, of being 'above' 99% of guys.

Now that you've over loaded, you're no longer getting the hits you were getting and the consequences of your journey towards ego gratification have left you felling empty and hollow. A come down of sorts.

I suggest exploring your feelings, your thoughts.

For example one line of thinking (at least from my perception) is "I chose a destructive path, now I have nothing to show except for this darkness. I deserve all of this".

Again, correct me if I am wrong but this is what it seems. It also feels like you are feeling shame and guilt.

Could it be that a part of you is trying to get something from punishing yourself with this shame and guilt?

Is a part of you seeking approval (from yourself, from others, from God)? Is it using shame and guilt to soften the blow you feel others should give you?

Are you seeking disapproval? To be rejected, shunned, punished? Could you welcome that as best you can? Let all those feelings, thoughts, images and sensations just be in your body? In fact welcome them like a prodigal son. Could you now look within yourself and see if there is any part again which is looking to diminish the blow through self-punishment? Could you welcome that, let it sink in, and allow all the sensations to just be in your body?

Now, could you let it go? Not asking if you will, but only if you could? It is only an invitation, you are free to reject it, stay home and chill with whatever you're feeling, but you could also come out tonight just for a bit and let shame and guilt chill at home while you're out. Just leave them some brewskies and let them watch the game. I'd lock away all my valuables though, those guys are little fucking shysters.

Life is what you make it man. You still have life, you are free to start again, that is the beauty of it. Each day above ground is a gift, a gift to explore and learn. Though sometimes we might get burned, it is sometimes the only way we learn to keep our hands from the fire.

Anonymous said...

Ok, so this is scaring the fuck out of me.
Does the darkness depend on you having "seduction" as your number one priority? That you base your life on this? That you build an image of you based on it? Or are you fucked doing this in either case? If that's so.. it really does sound like someone saying "Water will kill you", when yeah.. it might. But does it have to?

Ciaran said...

"fullcrum said...

I think it's kind of obvious you aren't convincing very many of us of why we should change our course and not persue this, other than "can't you see it?!" and "it's wrong".

Ok, first things first. I'm not going to be able to convince you on my own.

Straight up. Not gonna happen. I'm nowhere near that clever.

If you get this, that's because this is going to be a team effort. I need you to seriously think about these things. If you are relying on me to give you that 'a-ha' epiphany that's going to make leaving this easy, you have to understand that you'll be waiting a long time.

Do you understand? I can't argue you into understanding this anymore than I could argue myself of 2 years ago into understanding this.

I remember how deeply I believed in it. I'd simply shoot down, sideline or ignore anything that didn't gel with my newfound sense of purpose.

So - and this is a big one, and goes out to everyone who's contacted me looking for me make this clear as crystal - guys, I am trying.

I am not a perfect writer, nor am I a perfect thinker, nor am I a perfect dude. There are limits on the things I can find words to describe, and I'll go all out, but that's not going to make a single whit of difference if you - like me 2 years ago - are just looking for the weak points so that you can dismiss what I'm saying and move on.

Now look, I'm not saying that this is something you're definitely doing Fullcrum - or any of you out there. Maybe I'm just not making any goddamned sense. Maybe I'm talking shit.

But that's the thing, guys. You should know me well enough to know that for all my idiocy I am not incapable of insight. That I was not a peripheral member of this community, and that I'm not fucking around when I say that seduction is something that - REGARDLESS of whether you understand me or not - fuck your life up in a very deep and very nasty way.

"So is there a way to better explain this without all this emotional stuff flying."

That 'emotional stuff' will not seem so irrelevant when you're living it, mate. And also - I think that I have made some pretty concrete points so far. Really do. This has not been one solid lump of emotional flow. You must see that.

"The emotional rhetoric hasn't worked."

It's not rhetoric. It just sounds like rhetoric because you aren't considering the fact that I don't have words to describe how bad it gets. I gotta pull out the big guns dude, because you are facing some big fucking guns. Straight up. And if you want to dismiss this, fine. You will find out soon enough. I just would rather not be a prophet about this. I don't want to be the dude who, in a years time, gets a shitload of emails from guys who are deeply unhappy with profoundly damaged lives and go "see! I was right!"

Fuck that. I don't want to be 'right'. I want you to be free of this fucking toxic shit.

"There must be something else to get your point across. Just trying to be constructive :)."

Ok - loud and clear man. I'm new to this. I have never really even looked at the true face of seduction before a few weeks ago and I'm still getting my head around it.

So stay with me, and all of you who are teetering on the brink of genuinely looking at this - do not use my failings as a writer or a thinker to allow you to short change yourself on really looking at what you are allowing into your life.

"All the best."

You too, hero.

Ciaran said...

Anonymous said...

"Guys this must be fucking painful for Ciaran to watch too, he knows that you guys have trapped yourself in an illusion and that it's only a matter of time before you will see what the truth is."

Dude, I trapped them. Not all of them, but some of them. I'm not Neo, dude, I'm Agent Smith.

"Anyway, enough about ''other guys''. Yesterday I decided to log out of RSDn for the last time and I deleted all the documents on my computer about pickup."

Fucking brilliant work, mate. Awesome. And realise that like any addiction this is not something you decide one day. It's a commitment to stick with it. But you really see it, and I know you can do it. You get this brilliantly. You did good dude. You did real good.

"Ciaran, I wanted to stop by and tell you that today was the first day in 2 years that I have started living again."

Well cheers to the fucking future man. Stay with the blog. Ok? Stay with me. If you start having issues, post a response and I'll get back to you. Much love.

Jason Motes said...

Hi Ciaran. I've never read your posts other than Shock and Awe. This is very interesting and a bit scary to read. Just a few questions:

1) Do you think this would happen if I made having a life a higher priority than seduction? I'd still try to improve myself with women, but I'd also be building up my life too.

2) What do you recommend a man like me does? In my case, I'm in my mid-20's and I've never even kissed a girl, much less had sex. I found the seduction community about 6 months back, and it seems to be what I need to improve.

Thanks for any comments if you could answer.

-Jmotes

Ciaran said...

Flowz said...

Ciaran - Does the high of being in the moment & happy about the fact you have no 'need to be high' (you just are) count for nothing??

Yes, it counts for nothing.

Absolutely nothing. Not one thing. And I'll tell you why.

Building spiritual strength is not as easy as an "Eckhart Tolle Blitzkrieg."

It is not as easy as "Entering the Now."

It is not as easy as "Enjoying the moment."

It is something you cultivate over time.

This is something we WILL be exploring in a LOT of depth as this blog moves forward. But until that happens, let me just say this.

In the context of seduction, everything is subsumed and consumed by lust, hunger and the thirst for short-term glory.

This is not because we let this happen, but because none of us are anywhere near strong enough to stop it.

Nowhere near.

Moreover, this shit is so powerful that it warps our minds themselves into believing that we are 'enlightened' or 'spiritual' when all the time we are doing nothing more or less than constructing a routine every bit as robotic as the 'Jealous Girlfriend Opener.'

Why?

Let me ask you this - do you think that spiritual truths are in some way exempt from the insidious nature of pride and arrogance?

Good God man, look at the history of the motherfucking church and you have your answer.

These things will not ONLY be warped and twisted into pale and useless shadows of their true selves, any attempt to meld spirituality with seduction will make you far, far more lost than those 'routine monkeys' out there we all take such pleasure in bashing.

And why?

Simple.

It's because what a routine monkey is doing is so transparently stupid, so openly fake, that they can still divorce the shit your doing from who you are.

When we start fucking around with the profound insights contained in Zen Buddhism, we are weaving the lies we tell ourselves into the deepest parts of our very humanity.

Ok - and just so you're all aware - this is not rhetoric. I am actually describing what is really happening to thousands of guys in real life.

Now maybe you can start to understand why it is that I'm not happy about the part I played in this.

Or maybe you are not. Either way, stay with me.

"From what I gather you're a very passionate/captivating individual (esp when it comes to conversation..)"

Oh stop. You.

"So I'm sure that any audience, elite or not, that you engage in diatribe would be nodding along.."

You're not nodding along, mate. And frankly, anyone who can read the comments on this blog and think they are all 'nods' is not reading the comments on this blog.

"This does not at all indicate what you're saying is truth, it does however indicate that you are receiving validation on your point from naught but their nods & your perceived 'value/status' of this particular audience.."

Why? For the love of God man, why does it indicate one more than the other?

Seriously dude! Look - as I've said. Maybe I am "receiving validation on your point from naught but their nods & your perceived 'value/status' of this particular audience.."

Although I'll be honest with you mate - that seems a little bit like community psychobabble to me.

But when you say "This does not at all indicate what you're saying is truth," you are fucking deluded.

It doesn't PROVE that what I'm saying is the truth. Nothing can.

But the fact is that a lot of dudes are coming out of the woodwork and saying "yeah man, this is true, this is happening to me, I hate it" does INDEED indicate that there is something in this that goes way beyond the concerns of my 'validation.'

Now look. I'm not reading RSDN anymore. No forums for me, nothing. But a few guys have mentioned to me in emails that there are a lot of criticisms of me on that forum.

Two things, Flowz.

1 - Do you honestly believe that I did not know what would happen if I spoke out against seduction?

2 - Do you honestly think that the thousands of guys to whom seduction has given meaning and hope are going to be incapable of defending their bastion?

3 - Do you think that there will not be a million perfectly convincing arguments as to why a) I am an isolated nutter, b) I am a special case because of my past c) I am playing some political gambit d) I don't fucking know mate, I haven't read the thread.

Look dude. This is not an abstract fucking issue. This is not "oooo - ciaran's looking for validation."

IF I WANTED VALIDATION I WOULD HAVE STAYED IN A COMMUNITY WHERE I WAS LOOKED AT AS IF I WERE A SUPERHERO.

Do you understand?

I am the fucking inventor of fool's mate game.

I do not need to do anything to get validation from the community except show the fuck up.

And yet here I am, crucifying my reputation full in the knowledge that most if not all of the guys who once looked up to me will think I'm a fucking idiot.

That a million clever ass motherfuckers are going to perform a cutthroat character assassination of me online. And don't think it's going to be grand. It's not. It going to be snide and nasty, and even my friends in this are going to doubt me because of it.

You really need to start asking yourself the hard question mate because if I'm right you are fucked and fucking everyone you think you're helping.

I remember you, man. I remember meeting you briefly. It was in Leeds. Harley had just hired me to help out in his masterclass.

Let me tell you something about Leeds, dude. I almost killed myself in Leeds. Wake the fuck up, and wake the fuck up now.

"Is what you want a following of yes-men, for others to agree with you

I HAD A FOLLOWING OF YES MEN.

Is this getting through? I have just fucking immolated my reputation. I have just abandoned a HUGE following.

I just travelled all across America with RSD. I went all up the west coast and through the deep south. Then I went to Australia. Everywhere I went, even on the OTHER SIDE OF THE PLANET, there were men who looked at me as if I could fucking fly.

Who hung on my every word.

Who wrote wonderful things about me all over the internet.

Who begged - literally begged - me to hang out with them. Not even to see me pull. Just to hang out with me and speak with the legendary Ciaran in real life.

I tell you man, I am not building a following. I am destroying one.

"'yes!! seduction is fucked'"

Yes. Seduction is fucked.

"or is this position you're holding on the subject an attempt to gather insight into your own/the human soul as a collective??"

No. I am not a member of the Borg.

"What difference will it make whether people believe you or not, how it will it benefit them?? Please, tell us.."

If they believe me, they have a chance to live successful lives. If they do not - if you do not - you are going to cripple yourself emotionally, socially and - for all your talk of the now - spiritually.

No shit.

I cannot make this clearer.

And if you want to fold your arms and go "well how's that going to happen" I'd say two things.

1 - I'm doing the best I can to explain it mate. Have another read of the shit I've been writing. See if you can't find something in there that resonates with you.

2 - Nothing I say is going to make you see the truth of this unless you really, really begin to seriously weigh these questions in the balance.

"I respect you & am a big fan of your works/musings & would like to know where you're coming from (and where you're going) with this.."

I'm coming from I guess what you could refer to as repentance. I really want to just try to do something good for a change. I've been fucking myself and so many guys (and so many girls, but in a different sense) for so long that I feel the need to do something decent.

I'm as shocked as anyone.

"Many Blessings..

Flowz"

And you also, my friend.

Ciaran said...

Ciaran,

What is the alternative? Some people need this. They need hope.

Ok, a lot of people are saying this to me. I want you guys to pay very close attention to what I'm about to say.

Saying "There must be an alternative" to the Seduction Community assumes that seduction IS an alternative in the first place.

And as for hope?

Look. The seduction community is built with hope for bricks and dreams for mortar.

The question is NOT can it give us hope. Any lie can give you hope.

The question is "CAN IT DELIVER?"

And the answer to that question is no. No, it cannot.

And not only can it not deliver on ANY of the promises involved in it, it will destroy you so completely you will be genuinely shocked that you could be so deeply destroyed.

Again - not rhetoric. Real people I have really met. Over and over again.

And there is no way to stop yourself becoming one of them short of walking the fuck away from this.

"There are people in darkness only on the other end. Maybe it just leads to another, perhaps worse darkness. But there are other darknesses in the world that are just as real."

Oh, for sure. But just because some people in the world get shot doesn't mean you should put a .357 magnum up your ass and pull the fucking trigger.

This is not 'normal unhappiness' I'm talking about, but deep, Godless despair that will never let you go.

I'm talking about hooks planted so deep inside you that you'll never find them, and never be free.

I'm talking about weaknesses that will not die, that will plague your future every step of the way.

Ok?

I'm not talking about normal unhappiness here.

That is NOT what we are looking at. This is a whole new level of shit.

"How's a man supposed to redeem himself in this world, in this arena?"

Good fucking question. That does indeed beg an answer, and dude, it's something that's weighing on my mind pretty fucking heavily as well.

But I think that you are really on point here. You're really punching deep down to the heart of why it is guys are in this to begin with.

This is not about women. This is about redemption.

And look - again, I will be going into intense depth about this very issue but for now just understand that just because we cannot see another way DOES NOT MEAN SEDUCTION IS A WAY.

Ok?

It doesn't. Seduction makes things worse, much worse.

"To not have had sex until his mid-twenties or even later. To have missed middle school, high school, prom, college, your early twenties, your late twenties.... When the whole world is fucking?"

Yes! The whole world is fucking, and the whole world is fucked! Good God man, are we to take our cues from a neon coffin? Are we to accept what the chaos and manipulative bullshit of our advertising-driven society is telling us to want?

Are we to defer to the wisdom of a world gone mad to tell us what we should be desiring?

Are we?

And look - regarding guys who are incapable of holding a conversation with a woman. Do they need to fucking buck their fucking ideas up?

Sure.

Do they need to take action?

Absolutely.

Do they need to really address the issues that are making them so insecure with women?

Fuck yes.

What I am saying is that in the context of seduction all of those things are doomed.

Bucking your ideas up does not happen because you get sucked in to the culture of seduction and you neglect your growth into a man to indulge a part of you that you should have left behind in adolescence.

The action that you take does not FULFILL a need, but instead CREATES the need to constantly and compulsively take the same action over and over and over.

This paralyzes you and actually means that the amount of GENUINE PROGRESS that you make in your life is, functionally, ZERO.

And the guys who really make it, who really get really good, are NOT 'less insecure' with women.

They are - and I include myself in this - catastrophically insecure with women. They're just very good at fucking them.

"What's a man supposed to do with that? When he looks at around and know it's not all his fault, but really, it's all his fault.

That's the best thing this stupid community does. It sometimes helps those guys."

Look, those guys need help. And the thing is that sometimes people are so deeply fucked up to begin with that seduction, as I have said, can provide a focal point for much needed self-improvement work.

HOWEVER.

That focal point is inherently destructive because it ties all the progress made to a short-term hit of feeling like the man which is not sustainable, and which you will eventually sacrifice all the good things in your life to chase.

"I agree. Seduction is no salvation.

But then what is?"

Salvation.

"There are other dark things in the world that will drive a man mad my friend. Sometimes you have to take a chance. Sometimes you have to take the Chemo. Sometimes you have to jump."

Absolutely. But not here. Not into seduction. This will only hurt you.

"And sometimes you hit the ground. Hard."

Yes. And in seduction you will always hit the ground so massively hard that you will shatter like glass under a fucking anvil.

"At least it feels like flying for a while."

Good God, you are so right. And I know, I really know that there are a million reasons why you just don't want to go back to being a fucking douche and living by the whims of fate.

The problem is that in seduction that is what you will become, only far more so than you ever were before.

And all the power means nothing to you - and I know that it's so tempting to just go "you still have power so it can't be worse than this."

But the real truth about seduction, and the real horror about the community is that you do not get power. You just let your lowest and most selfish drives gain power over you.

And that, my friend, is a terrible, terrible thing.

Anonymous said...

It's Angelfire1987 again. Check this out Ciaran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgyEWi6082M

Lol.. can't believe you're throwing all that away. Most people would KILL to be in your position.. and you just threw it all away.

Anonymous said...

Ciaran,
This is some incredibly deep stuff and I love that amongst the shit that permeates almost all of the Internet, I can view such raw and emotional beauty in the form of your writing. Although I am not in a position like yours, I can understand how it feels to work hard at something which you believe will improve your life, but instead leaves you feeling numb and empty. I think to escape these feelings you need to think about your inner values and what makes you happy and complete in life. I'm sure it won't be easy but I believe you're driven enough to do it.

Moving onward, I'm currently on the fringes of diving into PU, but I think my attitude to it is going to make this wholly worthwhile and not at all dangerous to my psyche. I don't think I'll ever aspire be an upper echelon PUA, because it scares me that when abilities are internalised so firmly, it takes all the excitement out of the chase. My goals are relatively simple. I seek happiness and contentment above all else. I want to give and receive value to those who complement my core values, and I want to develop myself into the greatest human being I can be.

This life is a great journey, love and good luck to all.

Ciaran said...

"It's Angelfire1987 again. Check this out Ciaran.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgyEWi6082M

Lol.. can't believe you're throwing all that away. Most people would KILL to be in your position.. and you just threw it all away."

And you have to ask yourself why it is that I AM throwing it away.

You have to ask yourself what it was that has made me so certain that for all the glory and all the girls there is nothing in seduction but hell.

Because the truth is that me to walk away from all that good shit that you see, there must be something much, much worse on the flipside that - no matter how much I tried, and broke my heart trying to find a way - I could not escape without leaving it all.

Yes, there are amazing things in seduction - they are called women.

But seduction has a comedown that is beyond all proportion to the high.

Now why don't you watch that shit again, and this time think that if the high was that good

HOW BAD does the comedown NEED TO BE for me to speak like this?

Joel said...

Hey Ciaran
Jeffy made a video of you on youtube.Heres the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgyEWi6082M

It is called ciaran.It appears he misses you.My god,your life looked like so much fun.Im genuinely jealous now that I can see you as a real person as opposed to an anonymous writer.That looks like the polar oppossite of darkness to me.

Ciaran said...

"My god,your life looked like so much fun.Im genuinely jealous now that I can see you as a real person as opposed to an anonymous writer.That looks like the polar oppossite of darkness to me."

Of course it does. You're only seeing the tip of the fucking iceberg. It's smoke and mirrors, dude.

And you know what? I would take it all back in a second.

In a second.

Now why don't you just go away from your computer, go for a walk, and have a real think about the fact that not only am I walking away from that, I am running away from that and burning the shit out of every fucking bridge.

And if you want to dismiss this as 'Ciaran's just dumb' or whatever other excuse you will find to ignore the stuff I'm saying (and you'll find a shitload) then be my guest.

Just remember that I am here. And when you fall to pieces and all that shit means nothing to you, just don't think that it's random.

I guess for a lot of guys, and probably for yourself, that's all I can say.

I know this stuff has a hold on you that runs very deep. It had a hold on me. I understand it's pull. I do.

I guess, although I don't want to say this and I wish I could just convince you all, the truth is that the way this blog is probably going to help you is simple.

You're not going to change. You're not going to stop. You're not going to slow down.

You're going to keep going until you are fucked.

And it won't be subtle. And it won't be slow. It will be rapid and nasty. And you won't know why it is that you're suddenly being torn to pieces by something you should be able to simply brush off.

Remember me.

Remember this. That what you will suffer is not random. And it is not your fault in the way that you think it is.

You see, when I fell - and I fell over and over - I always told myself that it was because I'd let myself get too deep into 'validation' or too deep into 'button pushing' or whatever villain of the week we're reeling out in the community.

The real reason I fell was that I was dancing blindfold on the edge of a cliff-face, which is what we are all doing, those of us who learn seduction.

The failing was not in the mis-step that took me over the edge.

The failing is in the fact that the entire project is fucked, fucked, fucked.

So ok, you have your theories. You have your reasons and all your friends. Put on your blindfold motherfucker and dance.

I'll see you back here soon enough.

Steve said...

Ciaran,you are tearing me apart man.I don't know what the fuck to do.I'm on the verge of tears.I've followed you for a long time,since before Brotherhood of Change.Your stuff spoke to me so much more than anyone else.The reason I'm so fucked about what to do is that I believe what you are saying about the hollowness and the extreme negative things seduction leads to.I haven't been through that so I don't know why it makes so much sense to me,but it just does.But then I watch that video of you and I fucking want that so much.Even a small taste of it would be fucking incredible.At least you have had all these incredible experiences with beautiful women and sorted yourself out socially,so even though you are changing focus in your life now,you will always have those memories and experiences.I have had NONE of that.So to give up on seduction,for me,is to give up on the chance of ever having women/woman in my life.I don't think I'm strong enough to do that.

Anonymous said...

''Dude, I trapped them. Not all of them, but some of them. I'm not Neo, dude, I'm Agent Smith.''

You didn't know better at the time bro. I hope that God will forgive you and I hope that you will forgive yourself too one day. You don't have to despair about your past mistakes, because God is the most merciful.

You have been sharing so much truth with us. I am really thankful for that and I would also like to share the truth with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLJtfk4hE-c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKgNxeL8ZR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4W2feWFfGl0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYDqUYEph28

Take care.

Ciaran said...

"Steve said...

Ciaran,you are tearing me apart man.I don't know what the fuck to do.I'm on the verge of tears."

I know, man. I know. I'm sorry.

"I've followed you for a long time,since before Brotherhood of Change.Your stuff spoke to me so much more than anyone else."

Then don't give up on me now, man. Ok? You stay with me, you hear?

"The reason I'm so fucked about what to do is that I believe what you are saying about the hollowness and the extreme negative things seduction leads to.I haven't been through that so I don't know why it makes so much sense to me,but it just does."

That's because you're genuinely looking at it. And anyone who really looks at what I'm saying will see the truth there, plain and simple.

"But then I watch that video of you and I fucking want that so much.Even a small taste of it would be fucking incredible."

I know. I know that the feeling is so strong. I know that it's so hard to give up on this when all you want seems like it's hanging right there in front of you. Like everyone's doing this, and if you could only dip your toe into you your life would shine in ways it does not right now, and never has before.

I know.

God, I know.

Ok - this might help you.

I didn't sleep with ANY of the women in that video.

All of it was me in photos with random chicks.

Ok?

That's the first thing. Wouldn't lie to you. Straight up. That's a video of me and a shitload of girls I never slept with.

Ok?

The truth is that by the time I'd joined RSD I was already way, way below the level I was, game-wise, when I was teaching independently in Scotland.

Ok? So it's not real. You see me with all these girls - it's just a photo, and things are not as they appear.

Let this be a lesson to you.

The things that may be totally convincing, that may make so much sense on the surface, may well be complete illusions.

And this video is not an isolated case.

But putting that to one side - yes. Yes it is true that I have slept with quite a few women.

Ok? It's true.

And now, when I look back, I would give that shit up in one second to be where you are right now, with all the fear and pain and jealousy that entails.

"At least you have had all these incredible experiences with beautiful women."

Again, I've slept with quite a few women - but not these ones. Ok?

"and sorted yourself out socially,"

Have I?

HAVE I?

Look, there is a difference between being able to open and sustain a conversation with a group of strangers and being 'sorted out socially.'

My sister's just come back from University, and she was just showing me loads of photos of her out with her friends.

So many friends, man. Good people. Awesome friends. Fantastic days of fun and laughter. Real loyalty. Real consideration and care. Genuine fucking connections between real fucking people, shit that lasts a lifetime.

Compared to that, all the skills I have tirelessly honed for YEARS now, and I can hardly bring myself to face this because I don't want to - are useless.

It is not SKILL that gets you real friends. And I'll tell you something pathetic about my life, the life you so desperately want. I don't want to write this one either, but it's true.

I don't really have any friends. And that's not because there aren't great people in my life, there are. And indeed, there are a shitload of good people who love me who I do not deserve.

But friends? To just recreationally hang out?

Dude, I get scared. I get scared and I bail. It's so sad but it's true. I'm 28, man, and if I decided to get married tomorrow I would have no idea who to ask to be my best man.

"so even though you are changing focus in your life now,you will always have those memories and experiences."

All of them are hollow. That's the real case against sin. That even the pleasure of the sin itself is taken from you in the end.

"I have had NONE of that."

Nor do you need it.

"So to give up on seduction,for me,is to give up on the chance of ever having women/woman in my life."

The fuck you say. Do not be so quick to abandon hope. There are things in this world deeper and greater than pickup, and you can experience a fantastic love life outside of all this shit.

"I don't think I'm strong enough to do that."

You don't have to be. No-one's asking that of you.

No-one.

Steve said...

Thanks for the reply Ciaran.So much for verge of tears.Now I'm just flat out crying.(In the most manly way possible of course)
OK,I'm going to listen to you.
Seduction has brought me only pain so far.You,who have come from where I was and reached where I want to be,are telling me that my pain will be replaced by short term, shallow pleasures and ultimately result in far worse pain than I am in now.I don't take on advice from someone I've never met lightly. There was a reason I have trusted and respected you so far.Ye,it seems pretty straight forward.I am an intelligent guy.
Fuck seduction.

Ciaran said...

Ok, this from "The Groundraven."

"Yeah, it consumed you man. It ate you up and spit your out ruthlessly, brutally, and severely. But you are missing something man."

Really? What?

"Actually, you are missing everything."

How foolish of me. Do enlighten.

"Everything outside of this. So you have left. And I sense depression, like you have lost everything. And the truth is you have."

Thanks for the analysis. So what is your great plan, my friend? What is the genius idea that I have missed in three years of relentless striving to find the way through this that does not destroy?

What is your genius idea - the thing that will shine like a light through all the shit and make things better?

"Cut the shit, time to fuck."

Awesome. Give this man a nobel prize.

"Here is what you missed:
Learn how to grow roses. Learn how to ride a motorbike. Learn how to read a harlequin romance novel, and watch oprah winfrey, and enjoy it."

*is speechless*

"Learn how to chase your dreams again man. It sounds like you don't have any more dreams."

Aw. Poor Ciaran. No more dreams.

"So I have some understanding of "Where you are" mentally."

Really? Fascinating. Do explain.

"You are articulate, and convey your *self* through your writing so well. But you let this become so much of your life, that you forgot, that like growing roses, or riding motorbikes, or collecting stamps, or watching Oprah Winfrey, it is just a hobby. And if it ends up being more, you are, indeed, FUCKED."

Ok. Finally we agree on something. If seduction, which I believe you are referring to, becomes more than a hobby, I will agree with you that you are fucked.

Let me ask you something.

Do you think that you could engage in smoking crack as a hobby?

Because the truth is, if you could, you'd be fine. Your lungs might take a bit of flak, but probably no more than the average smoker.

Recreational crack-smoking is NEVER recreational.

And why?

It because the addictive power of crack is completely impossible to resist.

It is WAY beyond your strength.

And crack is a shitty little lump of bicarb and cocaine. You will never gain adulation for smoking crack. You will never be admired for smoking crack.

You will never be worshipped for smoking crack.

You cannot build an entire system of belief around the virtue of crack-smoking and have thousands of men all over the world agree and cheer you on.

And just to top it off, I smoked crack once. Just once, just to try it. With the French, strangely enough.

Sex is better.

The level of your complacency is simply unbelievable.

"Finally, where you ended up, and where I will end up are two different places."

Oh really? Wow. Awesome. Well everyone, gather round. Let's hear the wisdom of the ages, the thing I missed because I'm so fucking stupid.

"You, are obviously, unhappy, but good at seducing women."

Ironically, this is not true. I'm done with seducing women, and as such my skill level is functionally zero.

If I get with another chick it will not be because I 'seduced' her. It will be because we can both see the fact that we would make an amazing couple.

Call it a seduction if you want. There will be no 'gaming' involved.

"I am happy, but am not able to seduce women."

Then why the fuck do you want to?

You are not happy. If you were happy, you would not be pursuing this.

"I will end up happy, and able to seduce women, because that is not my life, and it certainly isn't me, or my identity."

YET. NOT YET.

And frankly, the reason seduction is not your identity is not because you are wise, but because you are shit at seduction.

"Hobby. It adds to my happiness."

Oh, brilliant. Awesome. Great. As long as you've really thought this through then. Hobby. Why didn't I think of that? D'oh.

"Ciaran, you are a brilliant, articulate man, and a true philosopher."

I am articulate. Everything else is bullshit. You can be a brilliant serial killer, and it doesn't make you good.

And as for a philosopher? I'm no such thing.

That word means 'love of wisdom.'

I have shown precious little of that.

"I hope you can identify yourself with those things, get some loves in your life, and get back on track with being healthy man."

I am on track, finally. And I feel better than I have in months.

MONTHS.

"Seriously, man. You will find happiness in simple hobbys, engaging pursuits, and finding love."

Look, I've been really harsh with you, and that's not cool. But I'm doing it because I really don't think that you are getting even 1% of what I'm telling you.

And if you hold me in such high regard, then you will not simply dismiss that, or the shit I'm saying.

And as for the simple pleasures?

Dude, you still aren't wrapping your head around the extent of the damage I'm talking about.

It will take EVERYTHING from you.

Even Oprah. Everything. Nothing will mean anything. And not just that 'sex' becomes hollow. Or that 'seduction' becomes hollow.

They will not become hollow until they have become your whole life - and they will. And when they do become hollow - and they will - your whole life will become hollow also.

And then you will see.

I do not want to be a prophet. I do not want to predict your future.

Seriously consider the shit I'm saying, or you will seriously find yourself broken, lost and alone.

Fact.

Ciaran said...

Anonymous said...

"Ciaran,
This is some incredibly deep stuff and I love that amongst the shit that permeates almost all of the Internet, I can view such raw and emotional beauty in the form of your writing...

Moving onward, I'm currently on the fringes of diving into PU, but I think my attitude to it is going to make this wholly worthwhile and not at all dangerous to my psyche."

Thank you for your kind words. Send me a postcard from Hell.

Dee said...

Ciaran,

I don't know what to say. You've really shaken up my confidence in seduction. I wish I could disregard what you're saying. I wish I could write you off as a nut, but I can't. Too much of your writing has resonated with me.

When you gave the intro for Jeffy's free workshop, something odd struck me about you. You spoke of "truth", that RSD is "the fucking light", and honestly, you didn't sound too convinced yourself. It's funny, when I met you, my image of this great "enlightened" Ciaran was kind of shattered. I had been so convinced that Tolle and RSD would save me.

I've known about seduction for a long time, 2 years in fact. I always figured it was AA that held me back from approaching. But when I was out, I couldn't help but feel what I was doing was wrong. I wasn't going to use routines, hell I wasn't even looking to get laid (see previous post about being celibate), but still something continued to hold me back. I actually went into a depressive episode for about a month and haven't gone out since (that was 4 months ago). I realized early on it would be harder for me to do this because of my Christian beliefs, but I'm beginning to realize there's not enough room for both.

At the same time, to walk away from this feels like I'm settling for mediocrity. I have an image of who I want to become, the life I want, but if I don't go out and do this, how the hell can I ever attain that? I want a beautiful girlfriend; the last thing I want to do is settle for someone from my social circle or work place.

At this point, I'm very confused. Maybe it's time to reevaluate my spiritual beliefs.

Anyways Ciaran, I hope you keep writing, don't disappear on us. If what you're saying is true, you need to keep it going to get the message across. While a lot of it is resonating, I'm still not fully getting it.

Rail said...

I swear to god if you start a pick-up company under the guise that it's not a pick-up company and it's about relationships or some bullshit after all of this, may god have no mercy on your soul.

Anonymous said...

MATT DAMON!!!

Red Leader said...

haha, dude.... you've gone bonkers...

hopefully this might enlighten you.

I don't identify with my emotions.

I dis-identify with my emotions

I dis-identify with the high's and the low's...

What i feel during pick up is not who I am...

I don't rely on my emotions to take me anywhere.

Honestly, how can sleeping with so many girls 'destroy' you?

You are alive, you are healthy and you have NOTHING... woo!

Nothing being, you have no past or future, you are in the moment, being present. All we have is the present.

I honestly think you've gotten so good at receiving validation from peers (that's why their advice doesn't count so much anymore) that your ego got overloaded with good validation...

Because the ego wants more, and more and more and more, you can't possibly get any more, so now your ego isn't used to this way of living.

It's now so hungry it's 'destroying' you.

Simply because you can't feed it the same validation as it's now old.

AS SOON AS THE VALIDATION STOPS OR BECOMES BORING, OR DISAPPEARS, ...SO DOES YOUR SELF WORTH!

Let go of the ego and you're a free man.



much love,

Red Leader

Ciaran said...

"Rail said...

I swear to god if you start a pick-up company under the guise that it's not a pick-up company and it's about relationships or some bullshit after all of this, may god have no mercy on your soul."

Hahaha! Yes, I think that would be a pretty fucking bad idea, mate. If I look like I'm doing this at any point, someone please slap me.

Ciaran said...

"Anonymous Red Leader said...

haha, dude.... you've gone bonkers..."

As you will, dude.

Ah, Red Leader. I have loved reading your stuff. You're coming from a really healthy place, really grounded.

That's why you're as good at this as you are - because you have that kind of centre.

Now first off, the fact that you have the centre that you have means that you have a lot of, shall we say, emotional capital.

You can go into this and not suffer those extremes straight off the bat that a lot of other people will.

Indeed, because you are so centred, you'll be able to shrug off a lot of the things that a load of guys reading this will not be able to shrug off.

But I'm going to ask you a couple of questions now, and I know you'll take them seriously because that's the kind of dude you are.

1 - How long? How long are you going to be able to remain centred? The deeper you get into this, and YOU will get deep into it because your centre will make you very good at seduction, the greater and more insidious the pull will be.

And that pull does NOT need to pull you into dark places.

All it needs to do is pull you off centre.

All it needs to do is pull you off your purpose, to put new goals in place.

Now I don't know why it is that you've got your shit together, but whatever it is, the fact that you have is extremely precious. The capital you have is not there to be squandered, and once it's squandered, it's gone.

You will not be this cool guy anymore. That coolness is not a permanent, nor an invulnerable part of you. The balance you have is not immune to being knocked the fuck over.

And when you're deep inside something like seduction - and you will be - you will greadually discover that you are more emotionally fragile.

You will gradually discover that you are more prone to addictive behaviour, and adolescent tantrums.

This will be gradual. You may not really notice it, although others around you will.

But the problem with seduction is that it will take you gradually - then suddenly.

Nothing happens out of the blue. And all the guys who've crashed out on this are not cut from a different cloth to you. You are not immune to the forces which destroyed them.

In fact, I'll go further.

I reckon that it is because you are so centred that you especially are vulnerable, and there are two reasons.

Firstly, you're going to get very deep into this very quickly because you'll find that you are very good at it.

Secondly, you will be much more easily able to shrug off the warning signs.

Ok?

Chew on those motherfuckers for a little while and see how they taste. Do not be so blase about the most precious thing you have - your internal strength.

And also - ask yourself if there are other things in this world that could use the skills and abilities of a man like yourself that are greater than the ability to fuck.

"hopefully this might enlighten you."

Shoot from the hip, hero.

"I don't identify with my emotions."

Really? How nice for you. Riddle me this. How powerful are your emotions?

Identifying with your emotions is a luxury for those whose emotions are not a raging storm.

As you get deeper into this you will find women who can play your emotions like a violin.

You will also find women who you absolutely adore.

Both of these kinds of women will pull your emotions all over the fucking place.

Now this is fine, if we're talking maybe every once in a while.

When we are talking maybe five times a night, three days a week, for two years, you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of not being effected.

None.

And the way it will effect you is NOT to make you more 'emotional' - not really. The way it will effect you is to reduce your ability to control and resist those emotions.

Then you will not be so centred, dude. Not by a long way.

And that is something that is going to impact every single thing that you try to do in and with your life.

"I dis-identify with my emotions"

Now. You disindentify with them NOW. Things will not always be as they are NOW. This is a process, a campaign with ever-decreasing returns of emotional high on your investment of time and self.

Do not think you will have this ability forever.

"I dis-identify with the high's and the low's..."

Because the highs and the lows are still within your ability to resist.

Your ability to resist will be, and is being eroded, every single night you go out on the pull.

And as it gets eroded, the highs and lows get higher and lower.

You cannot stop this while remaining in the process of learning pickup.

You may be able to slow it down, although I'd be pretty sceptical as to how.

But you cannot stop it. Nothing can. It doesn't matter how strong you are now, you are NOT a GOD.

You CANNOT escape the CONSEQUENCES of what you are doing.

You cannot.

"What i feel during pick up is not who I am..."

Not YET.

"I don't rely on my emotions to take me anywhere."

Not YET.

"Honestly, how can sleeping with so many girls 'destroy' you?"

How can it NOT? You are NOT made of STONE. You are a human being with a good heart. These girls are human beings with good hearts.

If you focus your life on - and I REALLY want you to listen to this - if you focus your life and build your life and confidence and sense of self around ANYTHING that gives you a short term hit of feeling like the man, you are fucked.

And you will not be fucked instantly.

But you will be fucked up, very suddenly.

Because - and I really want you to ask this question of yourself and really demand an answer - what part of you are you feeding?

What part of your personality does this FEED?

"You are alive, you are healthy and you have NOTHING... woo!"

Woo.

"Nothing being, you have no past or future, you are in the moment, being present. All we have is the present."

Yesd, but the present has a TRAJECTORY.

And is your present heading UP?

Or is it heading DOWN?

Are you squandering the emotional and spiritual capital that you have on a fool's errand that will lead to your destruction?

And before you go "No, because of X, Y and Z reason" (where X, Y and Z are brilliant, contingent reasons that make perfect sense) just remember that the part of you this is feeding does not want to relinquish it's food supply.

And it's clever as fuck.

"I honestly think you've gotten so good at receiving validation from peers (that's why their advice doesn't count so much anymore) that your ego got overloaded with good validation...

Because the ego wants more, and more and more and more, you can't possibly get any more, so now your ego isn't used to this way of living.

It's now so hungry it's 'destroying' you.

Simply because you can't feed it the same validation as it's now old."

Ok.

Phew.

Where to begin.

Ok, firstly - this is what you honestly believe, right?

And everything you've seen leads to this one, inescapable conclusion?

Ok.

Right.

Honestly, I don't know where to begin.

Firstly, you cannot use the word 'validation' as a magic wand to wave at someone who's saying something you don't want to hear to make it go away.

No, let me rephrase.

That is exactly what you can do.

That's why it's so fucking popular a word. Validation.

Oh, why's Ciaran saying this shit that I don't want to hear? Validation. Must be.

Let's see if we can construct some theory that fits, involving validation, to discredit Ciaran so we can just merrily skip of the edge of this cliff.

I know, why don't we say that he's doing this for validation!

Boom!

Awesome!

Now we can just keep on skipping over the cliff! Woo!

Oh shit!

Ciaran has said that he's obviously not doing it for validation because he had a shitload of validation in the community that he's now fucking up!

He's right!

Damn!

This throws a spanner in the works!

Ok... let me see...

Shall we seriously consider that he may be telling the truth?

NO!

We'll come up with ANOTHER theory.

Ok guys - what have we got. Can't think of anything. There must be something. We can't keep skipping toward the edge of the cliff until we've got our rationalisation. What can we use.

Enter Red Leader, Stage Left.

RED LEADER: I have the answer!

EVERYONE ELSE: Awesome! What is it?

RED LEADER: It's this -

I honestly think you've gotten so good at receiving validation from peers (that's why their advice doesn't count so much anymore) that your ego got overloaded with good validation...

Because the ego wants more, and more and more and more, you can't possibly get any more, so now your ego isn't used to this way of living.

It's now so hungry it's 'destroying' you.

Simply because you can't feed it the same validation as it's now old."

EVERYONE ELSE: BRILLIANT! THANK YOU RED LEADER! NOW WE CAN KEEP ON SKIPPING! WOO!

Ok, look dude. Are you so certain that these amazingly gymnastic psychological contortions that you are putting the word 'validation' through are really 100% honest?

I mean, have you not considered that there might just be another explanation?

Because here's the thing, dude.

If I'm right about this - you are fucked. And I mean, really, genuinely, no getting out of it fucked.

And I have a lot of experience in this area. A lot more than you. I have gone deeper than you, I have been better than you, I have seen a lot more guys than you at EVERY stage of this journey.

Are you so certain that your psychological mumbo-jumbo is going to save you from the fire you face?

Are you?

Are you really?

You're a centred dude man, although frankly from the strength of the response you just posted on this blog, I'd hesistantly advance the idea that ALREADY you might not be anywhere near as centred as you think you are - and that's fucking dangerous.

TO YOU. DANGEROUS TO YOU.

I am not going to get hit by the shit YOU are storing up for YOURSELF.

"AS SOON AS THE VALIDATION STOPS OR BECOMES BORING, OR DISAPPEARS, ...SO DOES YOUR SELF WORTH!"

In years to come, when you are living these words and nothing you can do will pull your life together again, you will cry into your fucking hands that you did not take my words more seriously than you are doing at this moment.

"Let go of the ego and you're a free man."

Let go of the conscience, and you're fucked.

"much love,

Red Leader"

Much love man. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

You're such a Goth.

Red Zeppelin said...

Hey Ciaran,

First off, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. It takes a lot of courage to bare it all.

I am confused man. Massively.

I think I am on the brink that you are talking about but I am not sure.

I am relatively new to practicing PU/Game or whatever it’s being called these days. I had a full-close the other day and even though I felt like the champ, I could not help feeling a bit like a chump as well. I couldn’t help but notice the sense of hollowness that you are talking about. It was slight, but it was there. I don’t know if this because ‘the end is always anti-climatic’ as TD talks about in The Blueprint or if it was the actual hollowness.

Whatever it was, I felt it. It was like a ‘is this all there is?’ kind of feeling. Now I am nowhere near as good as you are with women, so I don’t know why I felt that way but I still did.

I had a realization that this shit works and that if I give it enough time and effort I can be very good relative to where I am now.

Then I asked myself the question: Ok, great but then what?

If I do get that good then I don’t think I will be able to stop macking on the hottest chick every time I go to a club. Now I don't think that that is a bad thing in itself, but if I do it because I can’t stop doing it then I think I’ll be neck deep in shit creek without a paddle. I felt the high that came from pulling that girl but its potential for addiction scared me a little.

Even as I was pulling her out of the club I couldn’t help but notice the other girls who were hotter and I was thinking to myself ‘Damn it I should have sarged them instead’.

So what if I do land myself a hot girlfriend and another hot girl comes along (I believe that there’s always someone hotter who comes along, eventually). I don’t think I will be unable to not seduce her just because I know I can do it (assuming I get that good). I have already felt the lust of seduction in spite of being new to it.

But on the other hand, what is the solution? I don’t want to stop PU and settle for whoever I meet through my social circle and daily interactions. I want the turbos.

If I back away from the brink then I feel like I’ll be settling for less but if I dive off the edge I think will be in so deep that I will drown.

I don’t even understand why I am thinking about this so deeply. Right now I just feel like I want to be like that ‘RAWR lets go bang some chicks’ guy ha ha.

I hope you can share your thoughts on this

Thank you.

Red Leader said...

Mate, thanks for the big reply. I didn't expect that.

I actually see a little more clearly where you're coming from now.

I think with me, I'm never going to get that deep into it.

I'll probably find a way to get really good, but I'm also happy with just getting a girlfriend and going with that for a while.

I've been told I'm quite centred, probably due to being forced to wait around in the carpark after school for hours on end pondering my thoughts and admiring the trees as a youth.

"1 - How long? How long are you going to be able to remain centred? The deeper you get into this, and YOU will get deep into it because your centre will make you very good at seduction, the greater and more insidious the pull will be."

honestly, I've never been into 'seduction'. I don't like the term... never have. I'm now almost against the 'attraction' industry... I find it silly. I'm all about me. Pure connection with the moment. Being authentic, genuine and beautiful. I don't look at it in a time sense. I've almost ejected myself from the community, hanging out with people who are more natural and fun to hang with...

I don't wonder how long I'll be like this... My primary focus is the moment.... the purity of the moment, everything else is secondary.

"That coolness is not a permanent, nor an invulnerable part of you. The balance you have is not immune to being knocked the fuck over."

Interesting you say that... I actually don't know. But I don't see how it could be if I'm present and not worrying about the past or future. If the primary is the moment, then there is almost no issue at all. I will take this one under my wing, but I have a sense yeah maybe it could, but I'm open to being great and living in abundance, an abundance of centredness...

"And when you're deep inside something like seduction - and you will be - you will greadually discover that you are more emotionally fragile.

You will gradually discover that you are more prone to addictive behaviour, and adolescent tantrums.

This will be gradual. You may not really notice it, although others around you will."

This is where you assume incorrectly... I'm not tunneling myself anywhere. I understand this community has weirdness associated to it.... I activitely participate, but only at knee deep levels.

I dare pounce in the deep end, working for a company and banning myself from any monogamous relationship. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing for a while, it just seems weird to be associating your job with picking up women.... I can't imagine that to be healthy... or as fulfilling as being in a monogamous relationship. maybe it's possible, I don't know. definitely sounds like fun, but for me, I'd want just one girlfriend after a while.

"If you focus your life on - and I REALLY want you to listen to this - if you focus your life and build your life and confidence and sense of self around ANYTHING that gives you a short term hit of feeling like the man, you are fucked."

I agree with this definitely. Ego right there.

"In years to come, when you are living these words and nothing you can do will pull your life together again, you will cry into your fucking hands that you did not take my words more seriously than you are doing at this moment.

"Let go of the ego and you're a free man."

Let go of the conscience, and you're fucked."

I agree as well.

I think you're not that dissimilar to me, I never wanted to be a raging puller from here to there... though, I kind of did to 'practice' but I'm actually with a girl atm, just chilling with this one, so we'll see how we go, I'm open to anything.

Your last blog post above about the sermon was great, loved it.

MichaelR said...

I think you're correct to some extent, but only by setting up a sort of straw man to attack. In anything, be it seduction or inner-self improvement, if you approach the goals you set yourself as the be-all and end-all, then after achieving it and getting the high, the consistent success will end in a low. The success becomes habit, and that which is habit does not work well as a supreme goal.

Think of making money. You want for £1,000,000 more than anything else. It's your life target. One day, you find yourself with £1,000,000, be it through hard work or sheer luck. You're happy. You're ecstatic. And then it becomes normal. Having such money becomes a habit of sorts. Your state of mind shifts to fit the situation. It's a natural tendency. The poorest people in Africa would feel euphoric at living as the working class in Britain, but the working class in Britain tend not to feel the same way. But they will were they very wealthy. But again, only for a while. Then it becomes normal, and their state of mind shifts accordingly, and they want more. They want £10,000,000. Then £100,000,000.

It's not a problem inherent to the seduction community, as you seem to suggest. It's a problem inherent to human nature. We always want more. And when we achieve more, we want more still. What was more becomes normal, and what was normal becomes less, and what was too much more becomes just plain more.

The only aid -- and it's just that, an aid, not a cure -- is too approach goals not as goals of life but as goals of hobby. Don't let seduction, or the attainment of wealth, or inner-self improvement become a way of life, because that leads to the problems of which you speak. Approach them as a hobby. Don't identify yourself with your goals, and you should be safe.

Anonymous said...

Staying indoors with little to no friends and ZERO women in your life is NOT FUN. That's all I can say. IT SUCKS. I feel LONELY and unfulfilled, social wise. I understand I need to get my fun and validation from within, but I happen to enjoy interacting with other humans, including women. But they wont give me the time of day. Banning seduction altogether would leave me pretty helpless.

What say you, Ciaran?